Walter Jones (U.S. Representative, NC)

Could you speak to the cost of campaigning? It’s on the rise.

Oh, there’s no question. I have been here fifteen years, and each and every year the cost to run for public office the cost keeps going up and up and up.

Is the number of lobbyists on the rise?

Absolutely. I told a story many times that the lobbyists have the members of Congress outnumbered. The numbers keep growing. And let me say the lobbyists are good and decent people. They have a job to do. But if you want to give the government back to the people we’ve got to change the way that we finance campaigns.

What is the role of lobbyists with regard to campaign finance?

Well, each member of Congress spends a great deal of time telephoning sources for money, and their sources will contribute to the reelection of that candidate, or if it should be a challenger. And so you’re calling the political action committees asking if they would help with a fundraiser today or fund raiser tomorrow. And that’s the way the process works.

Would not having to spend so much time fund raising change your routine?

Well, I think if, if we had a creative system that we could actually, members of Congress in both parties could really spend more time doing the policy work for the people of this country. I’m glad to see that we are in the House and, I know Senator [Durban] introduced a companion bill in the Senate. We’re trying to start the debate, and I want to give [John Larson] credit for taking the lead and there are a couple of us Republicans on the bill, we could get more.

But we believe sincerely that we need to debate and see how we can change the system so that we can better serve the people.

How about public funding? With regard to changing the system as it is now, is the potential there to attract some quality leadership, maybe some people who wouldn’t otherwise run or be able to run?          

Yes, I think that’s an alternative, and that’s what we’re trying to do with the Fair Elections Law Bill; to have an alternative to the way we now operate raising money. And I think that the alternative would be helpful to challengers and maybe there would be some members of Congress that would say, “You know, I want to go this way myself.”

Do you anticipate a fair amount of resistance among incumbents, in both parties, to this bill? Why would an incumbent maybe be worried about something like public funding?

Well, I think that many, many times that people in Washington, and this is the history of Washington as well it becomes easy to stay in office because you build seniority and there’s nothing wrong with seniority, but seniority with the system that we have now makes it easier for those to raise money.

We were over at [Zanaco] taping an interview with [Colin Peterson], this had to do with farm policy, ag policy, and the Fertilizer Institute was throwing a party in the very room where ag policy starts. Colin didn’t think there was anything too unusual about it, but what’s your take on that? Should [PACs] be throwing parties for members?

Well, the answer to that is that is the system that we operate under. If you want to change the system, that’s what some of us would like to do, then that’s the only way that we can, quite frankly, create an option to the present system. There’s nothing wrong or illegal – and I don’t think that many of these pacts or these events that they feel like they are buying the Congressman, but the point is that the system needs to change. And I think that American, if they would just really take this cause on, and say to the member of Congress, “We trust you, we like you, let’s try to change the system for the good of the future of this country.”

Is it your sense that the impetus for this bill to pass is going to have to come from we the people, so to speak?

Yeah, I would hope that the people would see the importance. And I know there are many millions of people that do understand what we’re discussing today. But if you really want to change Washington, we the people need to get involved in this issue.

You talked about how this is the people’s Congress, we’ve got to return it to the people.

Yeah, I have always felt that if this country is going to succeed then the people need to be part of the government. The government cannot function as a free government without the people being involved. And so, the way I see it, the people are the government and the people need to understand that we work for the people. And if we could change this way of how we raise money I think that it really would help build confidence among the American people.

Back in 2003, I believe it’s 2003 or 4, we had what’s called the Medicare Prescription Drug, Part D Bill. This was an initiative of the President, at that time George Bush, the House was controlled by the Republicans, and the Senate was controlled, and that night I have never seen so much pressure. That was the night that they kept the vote open to six o’clock a.m.

And from three o’clock a.m. to six, I have used the term “it was a political Sodom and Gomorrah on the floor of the House”, politically speaking. And I can honestly say that twenty-five of us voted no to that bill, but the pressure being put on members on Congress by the Republican leadership was something that I would not want to see again even for the Democrats.

That night I think, the first call to vote maybe around 11:30 or 12:00, and as we were walking from the [Cannon Building] several of us together to go vote, I could not believe the number of lobbyists just lined up. I mean, we were outnumbered, I’m not exaggerating, at least six, seven, eight to one, and there are four-hundred-thirty-five members of Congress. There were a large number of lobbyists.

And then, even as we came into the capitol, they were not on the floor, I’ll make that clear, but along the walk to the floor there were a large number of lobbyists trying to influence members on how they wanted to vote. Twenty-five of us voted no against the administration and the leadership.

We were talking to a lobbyist, he was trying to describe to us the process whereby most members, in order to be competitive, and given the extreme demands on your time, have to hire a professional fundraiser. Is that how it works? Could you describe that process?

Well, I mean, I think most members of Congress, including myself, have a consultant that is primarily responsible for helping raise money. That is the system. I know I’m being repetitive, but the system is as it is, and if we want to change the way Washington works then we the people need to get involved in this issue.

Is there anything that you feel that you want to add?

I’m more generic than specific, but if I can just convey myself that we’ve got a system, the system needs to change. The temptation to have to raise moneys all the time, and it’s really more critical for freshman and members who have been here one, two or three terms. I mean, both parties, they will go to the RNC, or the DNC, and make phone calls X number of days, X number of hours, and nobody likes doing it.

But it’s a matter of having the support of the American people to change it.

But it’s the system, I was put in the first public financing bill down in North Carolina, and in the eighties, and it was really just hooted. But I think there are ways to, as you used the term and the word “creative,” we’ve just got to somehow modify the system. We’ve got to modify the system. And we’ve got some constitutional restraints, but we can work within those restraints and try to modify how we raise money.

What do you say to opponents to public funding? Could it save taxpayers money?

I think not only public financing, but there are other ways that we can influence this system, and we need to look at those options.

We interviewed [Alan Simpson] a couple of years ago, and he compared what was going on in Congress today as to when he was there, and he said people used to reach across the aisle much more easily than you do. That doesn’t seem to happen.

No, there’s a lack of civility, and you might as well face it, money is power, and that’s how this system works. And both parties, and the leadership of both parties know that to become the majority party, meaning Republicans right now, we’ve got to raise money, we’ve got to win congressional seats. And the Democrats have to raise money to maintain the majority. So it is a system that really is just, in a way, is dysfunctional. And let me explain that term, it just needs to be a system that works better for the people of this country.

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