IT CAN COST MILLIONS TO RUN FOR CONGRESS. WHERE DOES IT COME FROM? WHAT DOES IT BUY?
How long have you been out of Congress?
A long time. Actually, 20 plus years. I would always say, I would never do the job as a grown-up.
How are elections run, and what is the cost of elections?
Well, my view is there hasn’t been enough change. It was maybe 30 years ago that a bunch of us, in the House, public financing of campaigns.
And kept proposing it and proposing it. Never went anywhere. I then lost a Senate race, went home to Connecticut, came back maybe about a decade later and saw what I thought was obscene, in terms of a campaign finance system, had become so much worse. And part of the reason for that is that both parties had been sort of corporatized, for lack of a better term.
And so, they had gotten really good at raising money and gotten really good at whipping their members the Democrats in the house, Republicans in the house, same in the Senate — and putting price tags on them. You have to pay your dues. The more power you have, you more you owe the party. And I understand where that comes from.
I’m not saying that’s just the worst thing in the world. But what really is bad about it, and was a revelation to me, coming back after ten years, ’cause I really hadn’t been here.
I’d gone off and done other things. But was that the members’ time, which is precious, and where their schedules are so crazy and these people are so beaten down, a hundred issues coming at them every day, having to make decisions. And contrary to what a lot of people think, they’re very conscientious. The vast majority, 98 percent of them, want to do the right thing.
They define it differently, of course. You may not agree that they do something and it’s the right thing, but they’re trying to do the right thing.
And they’re very conscientious about representing their 600,000 people or whatever as the House members each do. And to have them literally pulled away, physically, because they can’t make fundraising calls from their office, to go down to this building that the Democrats own or that the Republicans own. And they have a staff member stand over you, almost like standing guard, and say, okay, call, call.
And then, you might even get into a pleasant conversation with someone, and they — cut!
Do the ask, get your money, and get out of there. We have to make a certain number of calls in an hour. That’s not what the founding fathers had in mind. You could read the federalist papers and you’ll get that impression. We don’t know exactly what they have in mind, but when I’m speaking to young audiences, I always say, okay, let’s pretend the founding fathers walked in here and they came back, what would they like and what would they not like?
Certain things they would really like. But this is the thing they would hate. They would really hate this.
So I just find it to be, it’s getting worse and worse and worse, and it has to be addressed.
Have you seen changes in the number of lobbyists over the last few years?
I mean, I read about it. You don’t see it in my life. I mean, I’m in my office here. I go to a meeting there, a meeting here. I spend a lot of time on the hill. I mean, it’s not like there’s a traffic jam in the corridors and I say, oh, there are so many more people. Part of it is how you define lobbyist.
And I’ve noticed, first when the Democrats took control of the house in ’06, you could see on a Wednesday, which is the busiest day, there are all these immense lines outside all the office buildings, people waiting to go through security to get in.
And they were mostly not Washington people. They were groups of farmers or [grange] members or hardware store owners — whatever, who were coming. And I think it was partly because — this is my partisanship coming out — but Republicans, let’s face it. They have one theme. Get the government out of our lives.
It’s this simplistic theme. The Democrats want to try to utilize government in a good way, and I think people sense that. So, they started coming to Washington in droves. And now, the Obama thing, it’s even more and more and more.
So, when you talk about lobbyists and you talk about who influences these members, these people are hugely influential. They may not register like I do, but they can actually X out what I do because they’re coming from the district and so forth. So, I can say, yeah, I’ve noticed a change in this business, that there’s so many more people doing it. I respect the numbers, what I read. People say there are more people doing it.
And there’s also Open Secrets, various watchdog groups monitoring the amount of money being spent like, for instance, around the climate bill.
Well, and there’s the Sunshine, right? And I’ve talked to Sunshine Foundation people about, how can we get more transparency? So, if I just went to a meeting, about, geographic preservation of wine labels, okay? So, you can’t lie. You shouldn’t put Champagne on your wine bottle, like a [Corbel], okay, whatever.
And so, we have a coalition of my client happens to be Champagne and others whose labels have been robbed. But the point is, I come out of that meeting with Congressman Thompson of California.
I’ll report on that meeting, okay? I’m happy to report even more. I’m happy to do it even more instantly. If there’s a way when I get on the Metro or in the cab that I could say, just saw Congress Thompson, blah, blah, blah, and the whole world can see that, I don’t care, and I don’t think he cares. Okay? So, all that stuff is good. I mean, that’s all really good. Let the sun shine on that part of the process. I want more of that.
What’s your take on the large spending gap between renewables and industry for representation in Washington?
Well, I have sort of maybe mixed, maybe even conflicting views about that, because I don’t think they’re winning that much, actually. I mean, I think the election of Barack Obama was about some big things, one of which is, we’ve gone from total denial of a climate issue to like, embracing, we’ve got to do something about this.
Now, he has huge constraints, politically, in terms of what he can get done. Those constraints would be less if we had public financing of elections. Because, part of what he’s up against is not the lobbying budgets as much as it’s the amounts of campaign money that these interests are throwing in.
And, I mean, most of the people that I know and am closest to in the Congress, coal and oil could throw a billion dollars at them. They wouldn’t vote any differently. I mean, it’s not where they are, right? So, it’s in these marginal areas. It’s in the coal southwest Virginia and West Virginia. That’s where they really had those tough calls.
I mean, it’s jobs. And I don’t want to make light of what these members go through here. But I wouldn’t look at who spends what on lobbying as that much of a big deal, because it’s also true that, with this administration and this Democratic leaders — and I say thank goodness — non-profits, NGO’s, non-governmental organizations, advocacy groups, when they get up in the morning have a hundred times more power than any oil company.
I was speaking to some consumer advocates yesterday, and I said, the only real tragedy here is that you guys have every door open to you. It’s just like, if you don’t do things that are really great, it’s a lack of imagination and a lack of putting a good coalition together. There are a lot of great things you can do.
So, no, that doesn’t bother me. I was a citizen action director, the first director of this particular kind of group in the country.
And we were annihilated, budget-wise, by the big utilities and so forth. But yeah, I don’t think we spent a lot of time thinking about that. We organized grassroots citizen lobbies, we did protests, we did whatever we had to do. I mean, there’s an evolution here. Ultimately, the dinosaurs in the energy industry are going to become extinct, or they’re going to change and convert. I mean, look at companies.
And I don’t represent them, but look at companies that are like GE, switching over the GE power stuff. I have a client that’s going to build the biggest wind project in the world in Oregon. They just made the biggest purchase of turbines in the history of the world from GE, okay? So, Duke Energy.
I mean, it’s some of these companies have said, and I think that’s a function of their governance, their boards, who they put on their boards.
And so, some of the big oil people want to dig in their heels and they have people on their boards who think that the whole climate issue is nonsense and so, they’re going to be the holdouts. I mean, from 2000 to 2008, they pretty much had their way. Particularly 2000 to 2006, before Democrats took control, but I don’t worry about that.
I mean, in a certain respect, the more lobbyists, the better. I mean, it’s just been a really bad job. I wish Barack would use his unbelievable persuasion skills and ability to educate people and ability to educate the culture to talk about influence.
How is a member of Congress — House or Senate — influenced from the time they get up Monday morning until the time they go to bed the next Sunday night? And let’s look at all those factors. And when you say, registered lobbyist, he’s made this into this big deal, their influence in a good way in some respects by the information exchange, the registered lobbyist can be trumped most of the time by somebody that a member of Congress sees at the airport when they get off the plane back home who says, my husband’s out of work, blah, blah blah.
But Barack is silent on the whole campaign financing thing, which is astounding.
He sponsored it as a senator in Illinois.
Well, yeah, he sponsored it. We all sponsor. We sponsor. We co-sponsor, [blah]. We pay lip service. There are people walking around the Hill right now who are sponsors of public financing who are still like, in frantic fundraising mode and handing out checks and bundling checks. No, there needs to be a corps dedicated to getting this done, and it’s not there.
I mean, with all due respect to Common Cause, with all due respect to the other groups, you don’t have to be like, a PhD in political science to know how ultimately, we could get to a majority of votes in the House and Senate on this. And it would only happen if somebody like this president, and you could say his numbers are down, fine, but he’s still huge persuader. If he just said, okay, this is a priority this year. And he bludgeoned the business community and said, I want you.
Maybe it’s not going to be the Chamber of Commerce with its feet in cement, but maybe it’s the Business Roundtable. I mean, maybe there are some groups. The business people are sick of this. They don’t like this, either. Nobody really loves this. The only people that love this are a handful of members of Congress who really shouldn’t be there, but they just have a fundraising edge because of where they are and they know how to use it. And a handful of people in our business who shouldn’t be there, but they hold fundraisers every day. And that’s their point of access.
Everybody else hates it. There’s nobody who likes it. But we’re not going to get it fixed under the current equation. It’s just not going to happen.
In your years in this industry, have you seen a change in the role of lobbyists? Has bundling become a bigger deal?
No, I don’t think so. I actually think people are frightened. Members, staff and lobbyists. You find many, many more people saying, I don’t want this to look like a quid pro quo. I don’t want to be involved in a fundraiser for this member, because next week he’s voting on something in committee that I care about. You never used to hear that. It’s much more the self-awareness, I think, because people have gone to jail.
And also, because the ethic has changed. I think, there are a lot of staffers and members of both parties who are very sensitive about we don’t do this pay-to-play thing. And I’ve heard them say that to people. Now don’t even come close to that. So what it comes down to is most of these members are having to raise money to stay in play themselves.
And I don’t only mean to stay in play by getting elected in their districts — re-elected. Most of them don’t have that problem. It’s to stay in play, like, keep your subcommittee chairmanship. You want to be chairman of the subcommittee on blah, blah, blah on the appropriations committee? Okay, 300,000 dollars you have to raise for the party, or else you won’t be chairman next time.
This is a big exponential explosion in making members focus on raising money rather than raising awareness or studying policy.
It’s terrible.
When you were in Morocco, you were saying a chairman has certain dues. What is the breakdown?
I don’t know. But I guarantee you, with minimal research, you can go on Roll Call or Hill or Politico, and they’ve published from time to time, the things that have been leaked about which chairman and subcommittee chairman have to raise this or that. And most of them hate it. None of them. I mean, maybe once every ten years, you find somebody up there who loves to beg for money.
You know most of them hate it.
How about you, to the degree that you’ve had to do it?
Well, you’re catching me on an interesting day, because I always say these are the rules of the game, and so I play in the game, but I’m not a big player in the game. And it’s all public information, you could see I’m not a huge player in the game. But today, hosting two fundraisers, okay, so, this morning was for a liberal Democrat.
He’s on Energy and Commerce Committee, so that’s my whole committee, health issues, energy issues, et cetera. He’s a type of guy that he’s going to do the same thing I would do, basically. We have the same politics. So it’s more like a friend. I want to help keep him there. It was a group of liberals from outside who, some of whom represent poker players. I represent poker players.
There were other people there represent poker players on the right to do internet poker playing. A big fight. Fun. Huge, fun fight, okay? I mean, it is fun, okay? Talk about stories to tell, wink wink. And some people were there ’cause I represent the biggest wind project, biggest solar project, et cetera. Wave energy, we represent. So, it’s like a family, a breakfast at the arts club that I belong to.
And we raised 15,000 dollars. Most of the people weren’t there. I mean, a lot of the people weren’t there. And then tonight, for another congressman who’s actually just like, one of my best friends in life. And again, poker players, renewable energy. So, it’s not like he’s coming in, this is at my house. It’s not like he’s coming into my house, where he comes all the time anyway, and he’s going to go, oh, my god, Moffett has people here that I can’t stand.
Or they’re going to ask me to do something I don’t want to do. That’s what most of it’s like. But I still want to get rid of it. I still want to get rid of it. I mean, I don’t need to be writing these checks — father of six, grandfather of three — I don’t need to be writing these checks to enable me to do my job better. I’m just trying to basically help my friends.
Are you wealthy enough to write checks yourself?
No, most of the checks that I bring to a fundraiser or if I host one are mine. And then people bring theirs. Sometimes, I have a client who can’t come. Okay, renewable energy client this morning. So, they send a check. And so, that’s how it goes. But no, I actually have sort of a semblance of discipline about, okay, I’ve written too many checks this quarter. I’ve got to like stop.
What’s your take on members of Congress saying they don’t know where their money is coming from and that it doesn’t influence their voting?
Yeah. Well, I think that the reason we have to fix the system and get money to play much less of a role is because, however it’s happening, I think it’s human nature, people who help you are looked upon more kindly. That’s it. I’m in a fight for survival. I’m a four-term House member, but I still can’t get over 57 percent. I know who’s helping me on survival and who’s not helping me on survival. Come on.
Now I may say, it has no influence over me. But in a critical moment, where the cotton guys or the wheat guys — I’m just making this up, obviously — or the rice guys. I’m talking about ag, I’m not in the ag business. Where there’s a decision to be made, I have some sense of who’s helped me and who hasn’t. Some offices are brutal about sending messages.
Well, okay, you keep coming here. And that message doesn’t come from in the Congressional office. It’s usually from a political person on the outside. You just are absent. We don’t see you helping the congressman or congresswoman.
Is the fundraiser the one who calls up the various lobbying firms?
Well, yes and no. A lot of the staffers will leave the building as the members do and make calls from a cellphone or whatever, just ’cause they can’t do it in the office. And that happens, okay? And it’s hard to say no, if you’re working with the member. I don’t want to misrepresent it. It’s not a bludgeoning of the people outside, saying you better contribute or else.
But it’s more subtle than that. It’s like, can you help us out here? Come on. I mean, you’re not going to get rid of that entirely with reforms, but you can get rid of a lot of that.
You said a regular citizen can trump lobbying, but if the citizen doesn’t happen to bump into a member at the airport or whatever, can they get access with a regular appointment or through the staff?
One of the reasons a lot of us want to change the system is to take contributors as far out of the game as possible. I mean, I just think that’s really important. So, yeah, there is an unfair advantage. I don’t think there’s an unfair advantage on the paid lobbyists. That’s the distinction I would make. Because I’m paid to lobby to try to get members in Oregon to support the biggest wind project in the world.
And it’s not hard. I hope my client is not watching, but it’s not that hard, because they’re pro-renewable Democrats, most of them anyway, okay? And I think that’s a fair game. If, on my wave energy client, also some Oregon relevance. So, they want to do a wave energy project at a place called Reedsport off the coast. So, we can have all sorts of people in support of that. The governor loves the idea — this is true, actually.
The Congressional delegation. If the fishermen aren’t okay with the local fishermen who don’t have a lobby here, believe me, it ain’t happening, okay? So, there’s all this negotiation that has to take place, and it has taken place and so forth. So, on the lobbying side, again, I go back to that influence thing.
If somehow, by some miracle, you could take your camera from 7 o’clock on a Monday morning until 8 o’clock on a Sunday evening and just be with that member of Congress all the time, it would be so revealing because it would show, there are a million different pieces of influence here, okay?
Could be a father-in-law who says this or that or whatever. As far as the ordinary citizens are concerned, I mean, I think that the tea party phenomenon demonstrates that you can do mob lobbying, but if you don’t seem to know what you’re talking about and you seem to sort of come out of the Rush Limbaugh — not very fact-based, I don’t think it has that much impact.
So, I think as a citizen back home about interacting with your congressman, if you know what you’re talking about, and particularly if you’re smart enough to get a few other people listening to know what you’re talking about, and you go into that district office, you can have a really big impact. Most people just don’t know it. Because, I mean, even yesterday, talking to consumer group leaders, they’re saying, well, do we have enough access?
I said, you have everything. You have Obama. You have a Democratic Congress. Your problem is, back in these districts, you don’t have that much going on. I mean, we had the MoveOn phenomenon. Powerful. Still there. But on like, pure consumer issues, I mean, what does it look like back in my district?
Who’s coming to tell me they don’t like the Ticketmaster LiveNation merger? I’m a member now. The merger’s before the Justice Department. I know so many people hate the merger, but I don’t see any evidence of it back there.
So, that’s where you have to have grassroots organizing. And it’s a challenge for Democracy.
Ordinary citizens have a job five days a week, whereas a lobbyist is paid to represent. I guess what you’re saying is, get it together, and then call Moffett and Associates?
Not necessarily, no. I’d say, figure out if your member of Congress is powerful or not, has influence or not, where that influence is. And there may be an opportunity there. Because if you organize people around the issue that he or she ‘cause these are specialists. They’re specialized, okay. If I’m from Queens, I don’t do agriculture. Okay, so, I have to rely on somebody that does agriculture who I trust, another member. There’s a lot of member trust that goes on here, okay?
But if your member of Congress is key on an issue that you care about, then get with it. Go have a game plan. My disappointment, in addition to the campaign finance thing being so prevalent, is the prevalence of ignorance about civics and about what citizenship means and about how you need to organize at the local level. I mean, well-educated people don’t have a clue in so many instances.
What difference would public funding make here? How would it be a game-changer?
Well, look, you don’t have to like, actually totally make it theoretical or hypothetical or use your imagination. In my home state, there’s a model public financing law for states that is now in effect. It’s not perfect, okay? But what I get, and I haven’t taken a poll or anything of the legislators. But people say, we’re more focused on policy. We’re less compromised. We’re less conflicted. We’re less pressured to get our campaign going early. We’re clearly less focused on money.
Now, some rich guy or woman can declare against them, can opt out of the system, they can get beat that way. But, the way the system’s set up, you pay a certain price if you just write checks. So that’s what it would look like. So, that’s what it would look like. Arizona, too.
Members of the legislature.
What should the role of a lobbyist be?
Well, no, don’t misunderstand me. I’ve had different parts of my career. Okay, I was a citizen activist, Ralph Nader, et cetera. I was an elected official at a young age. I was an anchor and producer in Connecticut. I was at a Fortune 100 company as a vice-president. And I look back and I say, where did I really have that buzz? Like I was in the fast lane of excitement and policy-making. And clearly, in Congress I did.
And believe it or not, I did in the corporate world. And I really feel like I do now. I mean, this is phenomenal stuff to be doing. And there’s a nobility to it that I wish Barack would speak up about. I’m only representing people whose stories I agree with. I help them tell their stories better. I’m helping choreograph. I’m not working against the President. I don’t work against the Democratic leadership.
Now, that might be nuanced a little bit. Okay, I represent Egypt. They might say, well, Egypt’s not doing enough on the Gaza tunnels. I say, okay, let us address that issue. We’ll get you some more evidence, alright? Then I say, I represent Morocco. They say, well, we think Morocco’s western Sahara policy, blah, blah, and I say, well, okay, we’re going to bring some people from the western Sahara to talk to you. So, it’s not like there’s nothing to do, persuasion-wise, but I don’t frontally oppose.
I’m not out there lobbying against the public option on health care. I’m not out there lobbying against the climate bill at all. On the contrary. So no, I’m only troubled by having a President, who I know could do it, not tell the full story. And some damage is being done here.
Could public funding make for smarter policy?
Oh, definitely. I mean, only because there are a lot of people out there who should think about running for office and who don’t. It’s like there’s this pie of talent that Obama could have in the administration that he really needs. And half that pie doesn’t even want to talk to him because they don’t want to go through the hurdles of having a spotlight shined on the fact that they missed paying 250 dollars to a [no payer] 20 years ago.
So this is about, how can we make that big pool there of people who would really be good how can we make them serious about trying to do it?
And with elected office, a barrier is money. You want to run against me in northwest Connecticut when I was at my third term and I’m getting 68 percent or 66 percent of the vote? And I have a bunch of cash on hand. You’re going to take me out? I don’t think so. I mean, and maybe I shouldn’t be taken out. But I shouldn’t have this fundraising advantage. I mean, that’s just ridiculous.
The other thing, by the way, that goes very much to the heart of whether people out there could run and we would have a different composition is getting rid of this outrageous bipartisan conspiracy of gerrymandering and going to a national this is part and parcel with public financing and changing the campaign. Because you’ve got a bunch of politicians, elected officials, Republicans and Democrats — you can’t tell them apart, sitting around, not with a pen like you have, but with a pencil, scratching — okay, give me that town.
I’ll trade your Irish for my Jews. It’s outrageous. So, that’s all about making their districts safer so they win by even bigger margins. So, if you’re a possible challenger, they intimidate you even more. So, that’s got to go, too.
If the Fair Election Now, Act can’t come from the representatives and incumbents in Congress, where will it come from?
Yeah, but look, under the current situation, and it’s nothing against Common Cause, it is what it is, okay? I can fashion for you what gets us to a majority in the house and a majority in the senate, but I can’t do it without imaging that, out there in those districts, you have labor people pressuring the Democrats, you have small business and local chamber people pressuring the Republicans. You have farmers pressuring both. You have health care workers pressuring democrats. You have doctors pressuring Republicans.
There has to be a national, multifaceted, diverse coalition of unlikely allies, alright? Now, Barack is the kind of person, the once-in-a-lifetime, maybe, who could actually help ignite that. But they’re not doing anything. So, under the current scenario, this is almost fruitless.
I hate to say it. It’s almost fruitless. Part of our business model the Moffett Group, is that we decide which causes we’re going to be involved in pro bono — for free, okay? So, we’ve been working for a year with the coalition to help normalize relations with Cuba. Totally for free, okay? But the bill to normalize to get rid of the travel ban, that’s the first bill, is stuck at 155 votes. It’s sort of like public financing.
And it’s not going anywhere until the ag guys decide that they’re going to get serious. Okay, now, they’re coming to the table now. If they come to the table and they put resources and there’s grassroots and there’s funding and there’s advertising, and Barack says okay, I now see there’s movement, that will pass. It’s like, that’s public financing. I mean, it’s not going to happen under the current scenario.
And there’s nobody better than Bob Edgar. I served with Bob Edgar, okay? There’s nobody better. But they’re going nowhere until we get these other pieces of the coalition.
And that’s not going to happen until leadership in the business community, in the labor community, steps up and says, that’s enough. We’re tired of this. So, that’s how I see it.
Are you the exception to the rule as a lobbyist?
But for the fact that I don’t think it would ever be possible to allow you guys to go into one conference room after another in this town, maybe 20 conference rooms a day, and there are different coalitions around different issues and to capture the discussion with your camera and to let people decide for themselves, it would be like, a very long documentary. I mean, we can’t do that. So, all I can say is it’s the exception when I find people who aren’t smart and who aren’t pleasant to work with.
It’s the exception. It’s very rare. There are a lot of public images that are incorrect. I’m just telling you that, I mean, in this coalition on behalf of 1.3 million poker players there are a lot of consultants around that table, different technology companies and a lot of business stakes in this, besides the people who are online playing poker.
I’m just always really impressed by how smart people are and how dedicated they are. And I mean, they’re running businesses. It’s not like they’re not trying to make money. But then the other thing that’s happening now, which is really good and it’s because of Democrats really being in charge of the Congress and the White House, there’s not just appetite, but real desire to go out and form public/private coalitions. We do a lot of that.
We’re bringing consumer groups with home appraisal groups to toughen home appraisal standards. It’s being done every day. And it wasn’t always the case. So, that gives you sort of a different flavor to the whole lobbying community.
Hit hard enough, but as you go along with this project, I mean, the trust thing’s really a big deal. Okay? The guy I’m doing the fundraiser for tonight, and the one I did the fundraiser for this morning, they know I would never knowingly ask them to do anything that would put them in a political bind or that would have them go against their principles, okay?
They know that, if it came down to a client said, either you get Congressman X to do this or we’re going to have to let, I would just say, okay, bye. And this is not uncommon. A lot of what we talk about around these coalition tables, whether it’s poker or anything else, or renewable energy or whatever, it is divided up by the people at the table who have the relationship with the member that involves the most trust.
So, I may know and be very friendly with John Tierny of Massachusetts, but if there’s a Boston guy there who is just obvious that grew up with him and they hang out and he has that trust, then he’s going to be the one that’s going to take. It’s huge. Yeah. And it’s not as much like that in any other field except maybe combat or cops and firemen.
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